Anonym wrote: Hello guys I did not want to say this here and told people to do it for me but I just feel bad not doing it myself.
Q: Did the doctor directly attribute the heart failure to RU?
I have been clinically diagnosed with Heart Failure. My heart does not pump enough blood for the body anymore and I have months and maybe a year or two to live. I have been very depressed about this but little by little I have come to terms with it.
It started happening right after using RU for 3 days. I used it in total for nearly a week I dont remember exactly. It started with the chest pains for a month then with shortness of breath and fatigue then with pulmonary edema cough now I cannot breath lying down, every single symptom of heart failure I have now but it's not too severe because it's just starting. This is always progressive and treatments are very limited. I have researched tremendously about this.
Some can live +10 years but they don't have it as complicated as me.
Many of you won't believe this and maybe you think I am a rare case and that may be so but let me tell you that the way RU works is the same way nilutamide bilutamide and other drugs like that work and one of the listed side efffects is Heart failure.
The heart contains a lot of muscle and those muscles have androgen receptors, therefore it has a direct impact on it. DHT does but I think it's more pronounced with androgen receptors. As for family history nobody in my family had heart problems and they live a pretty long time.
I have less than 5 year survival beacuse of my symptoms. I do not seek help here or forums like this only top doctors and health boards.
I am just reporting this so I may be at peace with it and done what I had to do. I've told 10 people in the forums including some in propeciahelp by PM just about it and they may be start reporting it in the forums.
I also have met a couple of propecia guys in other forums like propeciahelp with heart problems but nobody as bad as me and I may have scared a couple of them with heart failure but I think they have low cortisol and minor heart problems not heart failure. Heart failure is the worst you can have and I think propecia does not cause heart failure only AR antagonists do.
I only have heart failure with no brain fog, penis issues or any other thing.
Heart failure prognosis is worst than cancer prognosis, it's pretty bad. Maybe a heart transplant can save me but that's just too much and really difficult to get, besides I will always think somebody deserves that heart transplant better than me.
I am not coming back to these forums anymore. It just brings me bad thoughts and memories I want to forget. I do not blame anybody but myself for this and my family will suffer because of my selffishness. I am only 23 but I have a mother and little sister.
I just wanted all of you to know of the dangers that this drug may pose so I can die at peace. I know it sounds harsh but it took me a long time to accept this fact that I won't live enough.
If you guys want to help me out, the only thing you can do is tell people that RU has caused heart failure in a member of this forum and has a poor prognosis to live so I can be at peace that I helped future losses in some way.
Also I want to ask you not to reveal the info of me I have put in this forum at all. Just tell people RU has caused heart failure in one guy. It is a matter of dignity and shame too.
Also please delete my account here. I do not wish to come back here anymore.
Those three things is what I can ask you to do for me as my dying wish.
Please take care all of you and hopefully we will see each other someday.
Anonym wrote: Yes, because it's the same drug as nilutamide or bilutamide. There are many drugs that act the same way as RU so he said it may be possible.
There's no mistake. It started with RU. Alcohol never gave me such symptoms. Minox did gave me heart discomfort but that went away a day after stopping it months months ago.
PLEASE DO NOT QUESTION THE FACT THAT RU DID NOT CAUSE THIS BECAUSE IT DID FOR ME THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. YES I AM A RARE CASE POSSIBLY BUT FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY EVALUATE THE STUFF YOURSELF BEFORE USING IT.
The capital letters are not because I am mad. I am very calm but depressed. I'm just doing it for your own safety. I cannot part this life knowing that I couldn't help or tell people.
I forgot to tell you some guys at propeciahelp do have very bad heart problems and I am sure some of them have died/committed suicide but did not report it. Some of them post or don't post but most of them have skype and chat all the time with it you just have to ask them by PM if you are suffering with problems, they were very helpful but I think I scared a couple of them and I feel guilty because of it.
Edit: Nobody please feel guilty about this. This is my own fault and my body which was very dependent on ARs. You won't know until you have abused of it. I do not blame ANYBODY at all. I only blame myself. Please keep that in mind.
Goodbye you guys.
Anonym wrote: I don't want to sound negative guys. I appreciate your prayers and also your recommendations. I have not given up, nobody gives up with these. The symptoms are unberable to live with and also treatments is limited. Trust me I have done my research so have my doctors. I will die regardless of treatment, this is a degenerative process guys. I cannot use thymosin either because it is for a heart that is being damaged not a heart already damage.
My heart is already completely damage it doesn't work anymore. The only thing that can save is a heart transplant and even that is very difficult. I have gone to 5 doctors, ER 3 times, it's all the same thing. The screwed up part is that it didn't damage my heart muscle like most people but it damaged it in a different way that has very little treatment and research. If it did damage it the way it does from heart attacks or other things, then there are many drugs that can prolong my life but this damaged way is rare and doctors are puzzled on what to do with it just treat the symptoms and wait.
I am at peace now guys. I am calm. I know I will die. I am just worried about my family, that's all. I am also worried about you and those who are using RU.
So please in my memory let them know that RU has caused heart failure in a person and that they should be very careful, it's all I ask from you guys.
It's hard to understand but a dying man cannot come to terms with dying when he feels guilty and is bothered constantly that despite him dying he is still doing damage to people. So please please promise me that you will warn people about RU possible and rare side effect which is heart failure.
I think I have a year or so left. So during that time I want to make things right. I want to make money and leave my mother and sister with something to live with and if I have a year left I think it's enough for me to accomplish that. I am selling a couple of softwares I created before to some companies.
All I am worried about now and what worries me is how my mother will handle it and also the fact that people are still using RU without knowing this low risk. So please promise me guys that you will warn people about anti androgens like RU full side effect profile which you can get from other drugs that work exactly the same way as RU.
I have trouble breathing now even when sleeping because of fluid congestion in the lungs a very bad symptom of heart failure but what is worrying me more is that people may still suffer because I didn't warn them about RU and did not listen to me.
Take care guys. I am at peace with the fact that i am dying but just worried about people around me and people using drugs like this.
If you want to help me in some way just warn people about it, that's the best you can do to help me. I am researching hard so are my doctors because they are very sad about my situation so don't worry about the research and options, these doctors are not evil or anything, they are helpful even I received full free medical treatment till I die from the hospital I don't pay a cent for anything. So in that department I am fine, I am being taken care of.
I just want and i repeat again maybe it's annoying but it is what is bothering me I cannot part in peace knowing that I couldn't save people from RU. So please again you MUST warn people about it for my peace, it's a dying man wish. In hairlosshelp,hairsite,baldtruth, etc. All those forums please do it.
I have talked to people with heart problems like 10 of them and they haven't done it, maybe they don't believe me and are in denial.
So please it's all I ask guys, it's my dying wish. Don't go around panicking people but let them know.
Anonym wrote: [quote=Anonym-2]I have some important questions. Please answer them.
- What's your diagnosis?
- Is it confirmed by doctors that the damage is, in fact, caused by an anti-androgen?*
- Where did you obtain the RU58841 (source)?
- Which vehicle did you use?
- How many mg's per day did you use?
- How long were you on treatment?
congestive heart failure
it is confirmed.
the new vehicle
For what it's worth I did have lethargy to some degree and as for sexual sides I don't think I experienced it. The problem of RU was when I upped my dose to 100mg, that's when It started to get the chest discomfort on day 3. I think with RU you are doing damage to the heart but it can recover from it because some can take dosages like that but if you go up what your heart cannot tolerate then it will be ischemic and deprived of oxygen due to some unknown mechanism therefore have "heart attacks" silently and damage your heart permanently which causes heart failure.
I am 100% sure it's responsible , please do not try to say no its for the good of other people. As soon as I stopped the RU after 3 days the chest discomfort only showed up two times a day instead of being all day with RU. When I used RU or when I still tried to use RU on a lower dosage I got bad chest discomfort all day. When not on RU not all day but every now and then but the damage was done and it became evident a month later when I couldn't breath and had fatigue and cough.
In my opinion alone and not doctors I say that with RU you are always damaging all those body parts with androgen receptors but they can tolerate the damage and recover but there's always a chance there's little and little damage and it adds up and shows up way later. I'm sorry I had to say that but it's what I think. If you go to propeciahelp you will see guys with heart problems from damage to the heart but they aren't nearly as bad because propecia does not deprive the body entirely of DHT all day long, it leaves some RU however does imo.
Doctors are sure of it as well because it targets androgen receptors. Many drugs target androgen receptors to treat prostate cancer and they have the side effects of heart failure, those drugs are still prescribed because those guys have cancer anyways and the benefit of it outweights the risk for them.
You do your research enden google it look for anti androgens effect on heart disease and heart failure you will find many papers and clinical trials not from RU but from drugs similar to RU, it's a rare side but still possible.
I know you guys are mad at me and this is why I did not want to say this in the forums unless I was sure I was having this heart failure and going to die, this is why I never posted it in such a long time I wanted to be sure 100% as I mentioned to some guys here by PM I did not want to scare all of you because I know you all use RU.
But now I feel it's my duty so I can die at peace.
I won't give up. I need to prolong my life as much as I can. My mother is sick and nobody will take care of her so I need to be alive for a couple of years I know I can buy 2-3 years If I really push myself to the limit and that's enough for me to make things right and have my family being taken care of.
Also a heart transplant is questionable because you cannot get on top of the list unless they know for sure you won't have another episode of heart failure and they know what caused my heart failure and they know it may have changed my body chemistry to promote heart failure so it's really hard for me to get a heart transplant if not impossible because it may be better for others who really know what caused their heart failure and what they can expect, the take that guy instead of me. So I may die in a waiting list.
Besides it buys you a few more years on average though it can be a long time if you are really really lucky.
I really hate to come back here and post but I also must do it because I cannot be at peace with it. Sorry If I don't answer questions I just can't still believe I am going back to the forum where it all started but if it's to save lives and have a peace mind then I may have to do it but for now I think I posted all the info I have.
Anonym wrote: Let me add one last thing guys. I know some of you will question it and try to find anything to corroborate that RU caused it, I understand that. I did that in the beggining i thought it was alcohol but I remember drinking alcohol before and only got drunk and I did use tequila. I had a very healthy heart I remember running on the threadmill before using RU , I was running on the threadmill for the first time in a gym and there was a couple of PRO guys next to me with their gear and everything and I kind of tried to compete with them on who was going to last longer and guess what? I beat all of them with little training in running, my heart was that healthy and body as well without training or doing much activity. My father is an alcoholic and he is almost 60 and complete fine of the heart. Nobody in my family complained ever of chest pain, this is why doctors thought I was crazy when having normal EKG.
Once they saw the echocardiogram they were sure something was really wrong and they didn't even need echocardiogram because the symptoms themselves are just heart failure, there's isn't anyting else that causes this combination of symptoms at the same time.
Don't worry about me. I am doing the best I can, I need a few more years to live for my mother. My sis is too young to care. Just worry about you and those using RU or anti androgen that deals with receptors like flutamide.
I have received a couple of emails saying that I shouldn't give up and shouldn't talk about being in peace. Being in peace I never understood this term when my roommate died of cancer, I understand it now. What it means it's accept that my time is short and that during that time I must feel fine and not guilty and feel that everything will be alright after I die or during my death even if it's painful. When you are having a terminall illness the symptoms are unberable and you even scream in pain and cry in agony because you can't breath and rest but what bothers you more it's the mind, you go crazy and it's worse than that. I never understood that when I saw my friend on morphine telling me this but now I completely understand it it's a hard feeling that you will all understand when you are old and in your deathbed.
Being at peace doesn't mean giving up, it's the best painkiller you can have it's tranquility of the mind.
I know I sound all crazy and depressed and anxious and all that stuff but I was never like this before in fact from my chats with some of you before by email they can testify i was a pretty funny and good guy very encouraging because I did overcome many things in life.
But all these changes when you know you have short time, it's hard to explain. Maybe I am crazy but I think everyone is when dealing with this.
I am not giving up. I just accept that my time is short and that I need to do my best to prolong it to the fullest for those around me and if it becomes really painful then I'd really hate to see them like this. You can google heart failure and the kind of death they have, some are pretty bad, some are good and it's usually when fluid congestion isn't that bad.
Anyways guys peace. I am not giving up have that in mind I just have accepted the fact that I am dying it's part of life but my time is short regardless of what super treatment I use If I find it.
Be very careful and appreciate what you have.
Anonym wrote: I explained it how it does in my opinion but there are many drugs like RU that have heart failure as side effect guys. I am not mad and do not blame anybody but myself and my luck. I know you all think I am mad because I write such long posts and talk about crazy stuff but I am only doing this for two things:
1. For yourself, your safety
2. For myself, to be at peace in mind that I did what I had to do.
For a week or so when I suspected heart failure I was thinking of not saying anything and make you all realize this but then when it was confirmed that's when it hit me. I have to warn these guys because I cannot sleep well or be at peace if I don't do it.
I feel like a selfish asshole for not saying anything for two months. I wonder how many have been damaged because of RU or other drugs unresearched and have already done damage that may be irreversible and show up later. I really fukin can't believe I was so stupid and selffish not to do it early I guess a part of me wanted to believe it wasn't that bad.
I am not going to lie. I wish it had been someone else who had reported this and I had ran away from these drugs but then that's what I always been like, I always drew the short straw since I was a kid but somehow I did pushed myself and somehow managed to deal with the short straw with a big smile.
I will try to do it as well this time but I am sure it will be my last time.
Since I was kid I always researched many religions and found the perfect one to be JW and studied it since my teens.As crazy as it sounds, it is in my opinion. Interestingly when I was on it and following the teachings and being active I was on top of the world i felt protected and bad things resolved instantly and I didn't even masturbate till I left when I was 20 JW I didn't have any bad thoughts or anything till I was 18-19 and left JW because of lazyness. I think it's time to go back.
I hope we see each other someday guys. If you believe in God and if you really follow his teachings like I did since I was a kid but stopped during the past few years then I am sure we will meet someday guys. I've always been sure of it and now "interestingly" I am 100% sure of it, there's no doubt in my mind.
I know this sounds all crazy but I guess this is what it is supposed to sound like and I sound like my roommate. I hope I see him too someday I always missed him, he was an old sage dude who warned me about stuff like this but I just never listened now that I remember. I hope you don't do the same mistake as I did.
Anonym wrote: Oh yeah guys, stress echo and ekg won't show anything. You need a full doppler echo.
I tried hard czczda hard to convince myself of it that there was no correlation but then what can I say? I am the perfect example that it does. Just on 3 days of RU started to have chest discomfort. I was strong like a horse I never needed jackets in the winter I could swim like michael phelps and run like Ussain Bolt and I even could study for 2 days straight with no sleep I did those things every now and then and not regularly. The no-yes correlation it's due to the fact that it does to some degree otherwise there wouldn't be papers on it. Also women get the type of heart failure I have interestingly, there are a few types.
I want to thank you guys for putting this on top of the forum. It's really a relief for me that you take this seriously, it really gives me some peace of my mind to make it easier to do what I have to do with my time left. I know at least I did one right thing although I feel incredibly stupid at the same time.
I think it's time for me to go from here as well. I am going back to my country in peru and live there with my entire family. I am going to join a terminall illness forum, I kinda feel really bad coming back here it's something I want to forget. Now I won't feel bad that I won't come back here because I did what I had to do and warned you about it.
I'm going to join a terminal illness chat or forum. It'd be really helpful to talk to people in the same situation as me because I just sound like a crazy guy here, they will understand me more over there and maybe have some fun with a bucket list. I met some guys with terminal illnesses and it was fun for a bit.
I must also sell my softwares to the companies and move before I can't . They need some tweaks and then my family will be taken care of.
Time is short and I need Godspeed.
Anonym wrote: Hey guys thanks for raising some awareness in the forums. I am 100% sure it was teh RU. You can question it if you want , I understand. I would doubt it if i was in your position too but for me and from my eyes I am sure 100% it was the RU, there's no question about it.
You can research all you want, you can find out all you want and convince yourself that it's not true, it can't be, etc. Although I'm doing this to convince you, it's more doing it so that I can and know that I will not be guilty of future losses, that's all. Maybe I work for Kane, work for this, work for that, I understand that and I do not care because I did what I had to do.
You can find out, research me, question me, if you don't believe me, that's fine I understand that.
Anyways guys, you can delete this thread if you want it's scary I know but i think i raised some awareness and I wish I could do more but i think it's enough and too much info. I don't know really... what else I can do? I'm not sure I am confused.
Ah just noticed something. People are questioning me really bad, it's making me feel a bit mad helpless and sad that's something i never raelly expected but I guess anything is possible.
I'll be going back to my deathbed now and try to avoid these forums I think I done enough with some crazy comments and ways but I think that's the best way I can do it although it may sound very bad to some of you.
I'm going back to my deathbed now and cry some more, it's depressing to see this but I guess i'll have to comfront it once again. I'm sure if I come back I'll get even more depressed.
I did enough. I am done here.
Pensionerad.. Men testat det mesta..